The subversion of the Jewish “hell” in the teaching of Jesus

Read time: 16 minutes
Detail from Jan Brueghel the Younger, Aeneas and the Sibyl in the Underworld, 1630’s

A major part of my argument against the traditional doctrine of “hell” is that in Jesus’ teaching “Gehenna” is not a place of unending conscious torment after death but a symbol for the devastation and loss of life that Israel would suffer as a consequence of the war against Rome. I think that Jesus has basically reworked Jeremiah’s prediction that Jews who died during the siege of Jerusalem by the Babylonians would be thrown into the Valley of the Son of Hinnom because there would be no place left to bury the dead in the city (Jer. 7:32; 19:6-7).

In response to the last piece on Tim Keller’s defence of the doctrine, several people pointed out, here and on Facebook, that the name “Gehenna” is not found in the Old Testament but appears frequently in the literature of second temple Judaism, including texts which predate Jesus, and in the Rabbinic writings, where it very clearly refers to a place of darkness and fire deep in the earth where dead sinners are judged and punished. Doesn’t this have a bearing on Jesus’ use of the term? Doesn’t it suggest that Jesus’ understanding of the punishment of the wicked was closer to contemporary and later Rabbinic notions of a metaphysical “hell” than to the prophetic narratives?

This is a rather long post in answer to these questions. It sets out much of the data from the relevant literature. If you don’t want to wade through it, by all means jump to the concluding sections on Jesus and Gehenna. I do not, for the most part, dispute the fact that Jews from the period had bought into an unscriptural belief in Gehenna as a place of torment after death. But I will argue that Jesus puts the language to very different rhetorical ends, and that there may be something quite deliberately subversive about his engagement with the tradition.

Gehenna in the Aramaic Targum

When Jesus warns about being thrown into Gehenna, “where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched” (Mark 9:48; cf. 9:43), he is quoting from Isaiah 66:24: the corpses of the men who rebelled against YHWH are consumed by undying worms and an unquenchable fire. The quotation is very close to the Septuagint, but there is no reference to Gehenna in either the Hebrew or Greek text of this verse. The Targum, however, which is an Aramaic paraphrase of the Hebrew text dating from around the time of Jesus, reads differently (“Memra” is the “word” of God):

And they shall come out and see the bodies of the sinful men who rebelled against My Memra, for their breaths shall not die, and their fire shall not be extinguished, and they shall be judging the wicked in Gehenna until the righteous say to them, “We have seen enough.” (Tg. Is. 66:23–24)

So although the actual quotation has been taken from the Septuagint, it could be argued that in Jesus’ mind it is linked to the distinctive conception of Gehenna which is found in the Aramaic text. Numerous references to Gehenna have been inserted into the Targum in order to heighten the contrast between the righteous and the wicked. For example, whereas the Hebrew text of Isaiah 26:19 reads “Your dead shall live; their bodies shall rise. You who dwell in the dust, awake and sing for joy! …and the earth will give birth to the dead”, the Targum has:

You are the one who revives the dead, You raise up the bones of their corpses. They will live and praise before You, all who were cast into the dust…. But the wicked whom You have given power, though they have worked against Your Memra, You will hand over to Gehenna.

Whereas in the Hebrew Old Testament all the dead go to Sheol, the Targum tends to consign the wicked dead to Gehenna, which is a place of judgment, characterised by darkness and fire. The wicked will be “judged in Gehenna, in darkness” (1 Sam. 2:8; cf. Is. 26:15, 19; Is. 53:9; Hos. 14:10); for them “Gehenna has been prepared from eternity”, the “fire burns in it as with much wood” (Is. 30:33; cf. 33:14); from his sanctuary God will “see those who go down to the land of Gehenna” (Is. 33:17). There is some suggestion of suffering in Gehenna, but the main thought is of destruction: the “inferno of Gehenna will consume them” (Ps. 21:10); “the wicked will perish and be destroyed in the smoke of Gehenna” (Ps. 37:20); “their bodies will decay in Gehenna” (Ps. 49:15). Notably the paraphrase of Isaiah 65:5-6 says that retribution for Jews who sacrifice to idols “is in Gehenna in which the fire burns all the day. Behold it is written before me, I will not give to them a respite in life, but will repay them retribution for their sins, and I will hand over their bodies to the second death” (Is. 65:5–6). So that’s where John got the idea from!

The punishment of Antiochus Epiphanes

The tyrant Antiochus Epiphanes is threatened with “unceasing tortures” by the seven sons as they suffer martyrdom (4 Macc. 10:11). The “everlasting destruction (aiōnion… olethron) of the tyrant” is contrasted with the “everlasting life of the pious” (4 Macc. 10:11, 15). He is told that “justice will store up for you a fire more fierce and everlasting and tortures, which for all time will not release you” (4 Macc. 12:12). The author adds his own summation to the story: “The tyrant Antiochus was punished on earth, and now that he has died, he continues to undergo chastisement” (4 Macc. 18:5). No reference is made to Gehenna in the Maccabean literature, but at least in this instance of outstanding wickedness there is the prospect of an unending torment after death as punishment for the suffering inflicted on faithful Jews.

The Old Testament Pseudepigrapha

In the largely Hellenistic writings that make up the Old Testament Pseudepigrapha, Gehenna or Tartarus is the lowest part of the earth, a place of darkness and fire (2 En. 40:12; Sib. Or. 1:9-10). Conceptually it is an extension of the Old Testament Sheol or Hades (1 En. 51:1). It is governed by the angel Uriel (1 En. 20:2). Guards like “great serpents” stand at the gates (2 En. 42:1). At the final judgment, after the whole world has been destroyed by an “unspeakable fire”, the dead will be raised; sinners will be buried again under a heap of earth and “murky Tartarus and the black recesses of Gehenna” (Sib. Or. 4:186). The “furnace of Gehenna” is the “pit of torment” that will be revealed at the final judgment (4 Ezra 7:36).

It is said that the Watchers went down to Tartarus, “kept in firm chains to pay full penalty in Gehenna of strong, furious, quenchless fire”. After this God sent a “race of overbearing and terrible men” into “mighty Tartarus down under the foundation of the earth” (Sib. Or. 1:102–119). The wicked will be flayed by angels with “chains of flaming fire”, and “in the gloom of night, will they be cast beneath many horrid beasts in Gehenna, where darkness is immense (Sib. Or. 2:290–292). They will “repay three times as much as all the evil work they did, burned with much fire, they will in anguish gnash their teeth and all of them, consumed by raging thirst and hunger, will call death beautiful, and death will flee away from them. For neither death nor night will ever give them rest” (2:304-308).

In the Greek Apocalypse of Ezra the seer exclaims: “Woe to sinners when they see one who is just more than the angels, and they themselves are in the Gehenna of fire!” (Apoc. Ezra 1:9). He is taken “lower down into Tartarus” and sees “all the sinners lamenting and weeping and mourning bitterly”, and he also weeps, “seeing the race of men thus tormented” (5:27-28).

Dating is obviously an important consideration. The material that makes up 1 Enoch is usually assigned to the third and second centuries BC. The dating of 2 Enoch is extremely problematic, but parts of it may go back to the first century. According to Collins the Jewish sections of Sibylline Oracles 1-2 were probably written in Phrygia in the first part of the first century AD. Much of Book 4 dates from the period after Alexander, but Collins notes that the account of the end-time could originally have been written by a Gentile. 4 Ezra is thought to have been written around AD 100. The Greek Apocalypse of Ezra is a Christian text dated by Stone between AD 150 and 850.


The name “Gehenna” is not found in the Qumran literature, so this is a very limited survey. There is the occasional reference to a place of fire and darkness where the wicked will be punished. For example, the wicked will suffer

multiple afflictions at the hand of all the angels of perdition, everlasting damnation in the wrath of God’s furious vengeance, never-ending terror and reproach for all eternity, with a shameful extinction in the fire of darkness. For all their eras, generation by generation, they will know doleful sorrow, bitter evil, and dark happenstance, until their utter destruction with neither remnant nor rescue” (1QS 4:12–14, modified).

Arguably, however, this describes the historical affliction of a section of humanity, from generation to generation, that will culminate in extinction or annihilation in the fire of a final judgment. This somewhat mangled passage from the War Scroll may also describe the effect of God’s glory on the living enemies of God throughout the coming ages: “Let the light of Your majesty shi[ne forever upon gods and men, as a fire burning in the dark places of the damned.] Let it burn [the damned of Sh]eol, as an [eternal] burning [among the transgressors … in all the appointed times of eternity” (1QM 14:17–18). The phrase “damned of Sheol” would only mean that they are condemned ultimately to death.

The Rabbinic literature

In the Rabbinic literature[fn]I used the Sefaria Library for the search. See also GEHENNA in the Jewish Encyclopedia. I claim no expertise in Rabbinics.[/fn] Gehenna is the place of the dead beneath the earth, but it is also a place of punishment. Generally speaking, the wicked inherit the punishment of Gehenna (Qidd. 40b:7; Mishneh Torah 5:4; Ned. 40a:4), while the righteous inherit the Garden of Eden or Paradise or the life of the world to come. There may also be an “intermediate class” of people who descend to Gehenna “but they weep and come up again” (Roš Haš. 1:12); and various other exceptions or exemptions are considered. The souls of parents, for example, can be “redeemed from the torture of the Gehenna” by filial piety (Yoreh De’ah 376:4). Rabbi Yoḥannan was able to get Rabbi Meir “released from the sentence of Gehenna and brought to the World-to-Come” (Ḥag. 15b:4). According to the school of Hillel, rebellious Jews and Gentiles who sin “with their bodies” are judged in Gehenna for twelve months; then their bodies and souls are burned to ashes to be scattered by the wind under the feet of the righteous (Roš Haš. 17a:3).

Suffering may exempt people from Gehenna: “Three classes of people do not see the face of Gehenna, because the suffering that they bear in his world atones for their sins, and they are: Those suffering the depths of extreme poverty, those afflicted with intestinal disease, and those oppressed by creditors. And some say: Even one who has an evil wife who constantly harasses him” (Eruvin 41b:14). Those who give to the poor will be “saved from the judgment of Gehenna” (B. Bat. 10a:2; cf. Ned. 40a:5). According to Rabbi Elazar “The fire of Gehenna has no power over Torah scholars” (Ḥag. 27a:7).

Idol worship is the one transgression that “causes the wicked to burn in Gehenna” (Taanit 5a:13). The Persians or Babylonians were “sent by God to carry out his mission of anger”, but for that reason also they were designated for Gehenna (Ber. 8b:16). In an interpretation of Isaiah 66:24 it is said that Jewish heretics will “descend to Gehenna and are judged there for generations and generations” (Roš Haš. 17a:4).

Jesus and Gehenna

So what can we learn from this about Jesus’ references to a judgment of Gehenna?

The word “gehenna” is the Grecized form of the Hebrew gyʾ Hinnom (“valley of Hinnom”). It gets its eschatological significance from the fact that sacrifices—including child sacrifices—were made to the god Moloch at a site called Topheth in the Valley of the Son of Hinnom during the reigns of Solomon, Ahaz and Manasseh (2 Kgs. 23:10; 2 Chr. 28:3; 33:6; Jer. 32:35). Because of this desecration the valley became a refuse pit for Jerusalem, perhaps burning with an unquenchable fire. For Jeremiah, and perhaps for Isaiah, it also became the place where the bodies of dead Jews would be thrown during the siege of the city by the Babylonians (Jer. 7:32; 19:6-7; cf. Is. 66:24).

By the time of Jesus there were Jews who knew of “Gehenna” as a place of fire and darkness under the earth, an extension of the Old Testament Sheol or the Greek Hades, where the wicked would be judged and punished after death. The development is presumably attributable to pressures of Hellenisation. The imposition of Greek culture on Jewish thought provided both the conceptuality (a subterranean place of punishment, Tartarus) and the occasion (apostasy and the persecution of loyal Jews) for intensifying the belief in the punishment of the wicked. Jesus’ language owes something to this development: the name “Gehenna” and perhaps the phrase “Gehenna of fire” (Matt. 5:22) suggest that he was familiar with the contemporary apocalyptic terminology.

Regardless, the controlling prophetic narrative of the Synoptic Gospels is that unrighteous and unrepentant Israel is on a broad path leading to the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple by Rome, a greater Babylon, and needs to be saved. This establishes a strong presumption that when Jesus spoke of a punishment that would come upon Israel, and especially upon the corrupt leadership of Israel, he was thinking specifically of the impending historical catastrophe.

This makes Jeremiah’s warnings about the bodies of the dead being thrown into the Valley of Hinnom, gyʾ Hinnom, singularly relevant for interpretation, as is clear from Matthew 23:29-24:2. The scribes and Pharisees are serpents, a brood of vipers, who will not escape the “judgment of Gehenna” (tēs kriseōs tēs geennēs). They will suffer punishment for the historic rebelliousness of Israel: “Truly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.” Jerusalem’s house will be left desolate, the temple will be cast down. Clearly here Jesus’ judgment of Gehenna is Jeremiah’s judgment of the Valley of the Son of Hinnom: “all these things” would come upon Israel: the besieging of Jerusalem by a foreign invader, massive loss of life, and the destruction of the city and the temple.

Conversely, Jewish writings that present Gehenna as a place of punishment for dead sinners have no interest in the narrative of the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple. They are not written from the perspective of an early first century prophet in Galilee and Judea who was thoroughly and exclusively reliant on the Old Testament scriptures, and who at numerous other points invoked Old Testament narratives of judgment and renewal.

In the Jewish conception, Gehenna is deep beneath the earth. According to the Rabbis, there are three entrances—one in the sea, one in the wilderness, and one in Jerusalem (Eruvin 19a:12). People typically “go down” into Gehenna. Jesus, however, tends to speak of people being “thrown” into Gehenna (Matt. 5:29; 18:9; Mk. 9:47; Lk. 12:5), which accords more closely with Jeremiah’s imagery.

The subversion of hell

So I maintain that the narrative of judgment on Jerusalem gives us the basic meaning of “Gehenna”. But if we wish to take seriously the connotations that “Gehenna” had in the literature of second temple Judaism and of the Rabbis, there is perhaps a further layer of interpretation to consider.

First, I would suggest that the conception of Gehenna as a place of punishment after death—our notion of “hell”—belongs to a particular current of Jewish thought running from the earliest encounters with Hellenism, through the apocalyptic writings, to be inherited by the Rabbis, that was deeply and painfully conscious of divisions within Judaism, between the righteous and the wicked, and between the Jews and the dominant pagan powers.

A highly conservative, separatist group such as the Pharisees would have found itself at home in this tradition. Indeed, according to Josephus, the Pharisees “say that all souls are incorruptible; but that the souls of good men are only removed into other bodies—but that the souls of bad men are subject to eternal punishment (aidiōi timōriai)” (War 2:163). Another passage highlights the close connection between the Pharisees’ belief in the subterranean punishment of the immortal souls of the dead and the popular regard for their virtuous lifestyle:

They also believe that souls have an immortal vigor in them, and that under the earth there will be rewards or punishments, according as they have lived virtuously or viciously in this life; and the latter are to be detained in an everlasting prison, but that the former shall have power to revive and live again; on account of which doctrines, they are able greatly to persuade the body of the people; and whatsoever they do about divine worship, prayers, and sacrifices, they perform them according to their direction; insomuch that the cities gave great attestations to them on account of their entire virtuous conduct, both in the actions of their lives and their discourses also. (Ant. 18:14–15)

Secondly, the prophetic argument about a coming judgment has the character of a turning of the tables, a reversal of fortunes: “he has brought down the mighty from their thrones and exalted those of humble estate” (Lk. 1:52).

In light of this, we may imagine that Jesus has taken the language of the popular conception of Gehenna and has turned it back against the scribes and Pharisees, whose “virtuous conduct”, in his view, was largely a sham (cf. Matt. 23). This self-righteous class had used Gehenna to reinforce its sense of religious privilege and priority. Jesus took the idea but restored it to the prophetic narrative from which it was originally derived, and then aimed it squarely at the hypocritical leadership of this “evil and adulterous generation”. They would be destroyed in the fires of the Valley of Hinnom. Their corpses would lie unburied on the ground, consumed by undying worms and an unquenchable fire. They would be excluded from the coming restoration of God’s people, cast into outer darkness, where there would be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

The story of the rich man and Lazarus is a good illustration of this. Like much of Jesus’ teaching it addresses the question of who can claim Abraham as father and whether those who assume that their position in the kingdom of God is secure will repent. The rich man, representing a complacent Jerusalem elite, is buried, and goes down into Hades, where he is tormented by fire. Lazarus, by contrast, is transported to the side of Abraham. It’s not a “literal” account of what happens to people after death. It’s a parable about judgment and renewal from the margins. If Israel did not heed the words of Moses and the repeated demands of the prophets, the servants sent to the vineyard of Israel, they would face the catastrophic judgment of Gehenna.

Briefly then: Jesus agreed with the Pharisees that there would be a judgment of Gehenna, but 1) it would be Jeremiah’s Gehenna of war and slaughter, not the popular and unbiblical notion of torment after death; and 2) it was the Pharisees and the rest of this “evil and adulterous generation” who would find themselves thrown into this Gehenna, not the likes of wretched Lazarus.

I just don’t think your idea matches Jesus’ words.

If Jesus were referring to a literal trash burning valley outside of Jerusalem where Romans would throw the bodies of dead Jews, why would he call it a place of outer darkness? And why would dead Jews weep and gnash their teeth?

I think the parable in Luke, along with the references in the Gospels to weeping and gnashing of teeth, and the pairing of fire with outer darkness show that Jesus believed there would be a judgment at his return and some would be invited into the kingdom while others would be killed and find themselves consigned to punishment in the underworld.

Jesus doesn’t call Gehenna a “place of outer darkness”. There are two different apocalyptic motifs here.

1. There is the image of being thrown into Gehenna, which either because of the burning rubbish or because of the popular tradition is a place of fire. This is an image of the suffering and destruction associated with the siege and razing of Jerusalem. Significantly, the rich man in the story is not in Gehenna being tormented but in Hades.

2. There is the image of expulsion into outer darkness where there is wailing and gnashing of teeth. Here the point is not destruction but exclusion: those who weep and gnash their teeth have been shut out of the coming kingdom (like the foolish virgins) and vent their grief and resentment against God’s righteous:

I tell you, many will come from east and west and recline at table with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven, while the sons of the kingdom will be thrown into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. (Matt. 8:11–12; cf. 22:12; 25:30; Lk. 13:28)

The two motifs are kept apart from each other except for a partial overlap in the explanation of the parable of the weeds and in the parable of net: the wicked in Israel will be thrown into the “fiery furnace”, where there will be “weeping and gnashing of teeth”. Neither Gehenna nor “outer darkness” is mentioned here, but the point would be that when judgment comes on Jerusalem as a day of fire (cf. Jer. 17:27; Ezek. 22:20, 22; Zeph. 1:18; Mal. 3:2), rebellious Israel will express grief and resentment.

It still seems to me that you are creating distinctions and separation where the text does the opposite.

Gehenna (the place of unquenchable fire) is where the unrighteous are cast by Yahweh after He kills them (Luke 12:5).

James, writing to the Jews scattered abroad, reminds them the tongue of the unrighteous will burn in the fire of Gehenna (James 3:6). He is not suggesting they will be thrown in a trash heap outside the walls of Jerusalem.

Paul says believers do not need to descend into the abyss (pit/tartarus/hades) to bring Christ up from the dead (Romans 10:7).

We also know that the idea of sheol/hades being a place of darkness and fire for punishment was well known by first and second century Jews (1QS, Revelation of Peter, 2 Enoch, etc.)

In my mind, it makes no sense to look at passages that say…
1. the unrighteous will be thrown by Yahweh into a place of outer darkness where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth (Matt 8, 22)
2. the unrighteous will be thrown by Yahweh into Gehenna (Luke 12:5)
3. the unrighteous will be thrown by Yahweh into dark Tartarus (2 Peter 2:4)
…and not see these terms as, for the most part, synonymous.

(I realize there may be nuances here such as “levels” of the underworld to be considered.)

James, writing to the Jews scattered abroad, reminds them the tongue of the unrighteous will burn in the fire of Gehenna…

I plan to write a short piece on James 3:6, but just to clarify the point, this looks to me like a figurative usage: the tongue sets on fire the wheel of existence and is itself set on fire (phlogizomenē: present participle) by Gehenna. Gehenna is the source of the destructive influence of the tongue. There is not thought here of tongue of the unrighteous being burned in Gehenna once they have died.

I don’t know how the distinction between exclusion and destruction works out in other Jewish writings, but I don’t see a problem with the idea that Jesus used different imagery to speak of different aspects or implications of the coming judgment on Jerusalem. It’s only because the church subsequently adopted the Hellenistic-Jewish conceptuality of hell that we assume these are all different ways of saying the same thing.

2 Peter 2:4 only speaks of angels being thrown into Tartarus, and there is no reference to torment—they are merely kept under guard until the judgment, rather like Satan in the abyss (Rev. 20:1-3). The judgment on humanity in this passage is destruction or extinction—the flood generation or Sodom and Gomorrah (2:5-6).

But Tartarus was also called the “abyss” and “bottomless pit” and Paul told believers they didn’t need to go there to be with Jesus (just as they didn’t need to go to heaven to be with him).

I think too often you too easily dismiss ideas as Hellenistic and therefore not likely reflecting Jewish perspective. The Jews had been under Greek/Roman occupation for a long time so some influence should be expected; however, many cultures believed in an underworld and rewards and punishments for those who died, so we need to be careful that we are not calling things “Hellenistic” simply because they share certain attributes (and vocabulary). As I mentioned in an earlier comment, several well-respected New Testament scholars see the addition of punishment to the underworld as a natural Jewish development of Sheol—needed to emphasize Yahweh’s perfect justice.

I think too often you too easily dismiss ideas as Hellenistic and therefore not likely reflecting Jewish perspective.

This was the point of the post. I agree that many Jews at the time had come to believe in Gehenna as a place of punishment after death—that’s very clear. But my suggestion is that Jesus’ controlling narrative is the prophetic one of judgment on Jerusalem, and that he turns the popular notion back against the Pharisees—as in the rich man and Lazarus story—only what Jesus means by Gehenna is not what the Pharisees understood.

I get what you are saying in the post; I just don’t see evidence to back up your claim that Jesus’ was subverting views of Hades that were held by Pharisees and/or other sects of Judaism in first-century Palestine.

For now, we’ll just agree to disagree. :)

Thank you, Andrew; this is helpful.

I’m curious about the “mechanics” of the connection between the forbidden practice and the peril of Gehenna in Mt 5:22. The imminent “under the sun” judgment of the war with Rome does not seem to be in plain view in the near context. That said, the standard interpretation doesn’t make much sense (to me; maybe that’s just me), that one risks eternal conscious torment for calling someone a moron.

Perhaps this is about future peace within the small, fragile community of Jesus’ followers, who will face pressures to conform to the wishes of the more numerous “war party” within Israel and who, if alienated from the “Jesus community”, will be more likely to be swept up into the broad path to the destruction of Israel.

That’s certainly worth considering—that the saying is directed at the community of Jesus’ followers rather than to Israel as a whole. To expect their righteousness to exceed that of the scribes and Pharisees (Matt. 5:20), though, rather suggests that he believes that the unrighteous leaders of Israel will face Gehenna because they call others “fools.” So perhaps the point is that the scribes and Pharisees are condemned because they say, “You fool!” to Jesus’ followers. In other words, it’s a mark of their rejection of the message about the coming kingdom of God. I don’t think I considered that angle in “Why would being rude to someone get you thrown into the hell of fire?

Thank you, Andrew.

re:  “perhaps the point is that the scribes and Pharisees are condemned because they say, “You fool!” to Jesus’ followers. In other words, it’s a mark of their rejection of the message about the coming kingdom of God.”

This is an appealing interpretation. It integrates this part of the Sermon tightly with the conclusion of the Beatitudes, sort of the “flip” side of Mt 5:11-12.

The meek peacemakers will survive the coming War and inherit what is left of the land. The hostility of the majority, bent on war, is a sign that the followers of Jesus’ way of peace (perhaps that’s the origin of “the Way” in Acts?) are on the right side of the Divine purposes. The reviling warmakers who persecure them will perish and decompose unburied in Hinnom valley, food for the wild beasts. 

That’s a rather “rougher” Jesus than we are accustomed to hearing about in Sunday School!

Hello, I hope I am not too tardy to comment on this post. I understand your concept of Gehenna as being the judgment of the Jews during the siege of Jerusalem. However, I think this concept is too extreme for the practical teachings of the Sermon on the Mount. For example, the teaching in Matthew 5:27-30 concerning lust and adultery, the warning to cut off and throw away a sinful member of your body or your whole body would be thrown into Gehenna. There is a difference between the sin of the individual (lust in this instance) and the whole of sinful Israel. Would you help me understand how this teaching in the Sermon works with the judgment of Israel in 70 A.D.

Never too late to comment.

It’s a good observation, but I think the perception arises because we have inherited some over-individualistic assumptions about the sermon on the mount.

The beatitudes draw on Old Testament Israel passages. Matthew 5:11-12 presupposes the mission of the disciples to Israel. The teaching has to do with the conditions for entering the kingdom of heaven, which is a corporate idea, not the personal hope of going to heaven (5:17-20). The “You have heard…” sayings establish an alternative to the Law, which is a social construct—perhaps there is an allusion to the new covenant in the Spirit, when the Law will be written on the hearts of Jews. There are echoes of John the Baptist’s teaching, which was a message of impending judgment for Israel and a call to individual Jews to repent. Loving your enemies was an alternative to armed insurrection against Rome. The Lord’s prayer has a powerful eschatological orientation. False prophets will lead Israel astray. The metaphors of the two gates and of the two houses have strong antecedents in the Old Testament prophets.

Certainly Jesus addresses the fate of individuals and the personal security of the disciples in the midst of the eschatological upheaval, but the overarching narrative, I think, is solidly corporate and national. It is because Israel as a nation faces destruction that individual Jews should change their ways and the disciples should learn to trust in their heavenly Father. Repentance is not a social abstraction; it is people who have to repent.

The subject of hell is obviously approached here in a humanistic manner which always tends to explain it away. Unregenerate man doesn’t like the prospect of burning in a lake of fire for all eternity, and so he denies it (after all he is not that bad, and a ‘God of love’ wouldn’t allow such a thing anyway). 

It is similar to the deception which was applied during the Final Solution: load after load was lured into the chambers of death by promising them some work and a cup of tea after the shower. The victims then suffered indescribable agony which lasted up to half an hour: darkness, screams, and stench, followed by fire (unless they were cast alive into the ovens or fire pits). The agony which people will suffer after they have been cast into hell — foreshadowed by the Shoah — will last for eternity.

Satan uses today’s intellectuals, smiling pastors and rabbis (besides atheists) in the same way he used the Nazis to lure people into death, i.e. physical death followed by eternal death – and make no mistake, people will be fully conscious and suffer endlessly.

That the Holocaust was God’s vengeance on His beloved but idolatrous people for burning children in the VALLEY OF HINNOM (and elsewhere) for centuries, is usually swept under the carpet – it is politically incorrect, too offensive, and sounds anti-Semitic (in other words, we have a Holocaust denial here – the Holocaust perpetrated by Israel before the Assyrian & Babylonian captivities is conveniently denied).

God will deal in the same way with idolatrous mankind, i.e. with the Gentiles; the Shoah was the type, the lake of fire is the antitype.  

I think we better start learning from it before we die.

Hi Jake. Thanks for this.

Leaving the Gentiles out of it for now, it looks to me as though you are making a very similar “humanistic” argument to mine. I argued that Jesus believed that judgment on a wicked generation of Jews would come in a manner analogous to the judgment foreseen by Jeremiah—that is, by invasion, war and the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple, with massive loss of life. You are suggesting that the Holocaust was God’s vengeance on his “beloved but idolatrous people” for sins committed millennia earlier and already punished by the Assyrian and Babylonian captivities. I’m not sure I would agree with that, but when it comes to judgment against Israel, we are both humanists, as you put it.

So all I would then say is that the New Testament speaks of judgment against the nations in the same terms, in keeping with the Old Testament witness. What is in view is an event in history: the overthrow of the oppressive pagan enemy of YHWH and his people and the establishment of a new political-religious order.

As for the lake of fire, it is a mode of destruction, like the stream of fire that flows from the throne of the Ancient of Days: “And as I looked, the beast was killed, and its body destroyed and given over to be burned with fire” (Dan. 7:11).

But I wouldn’t call any of this “humanistic”. It is the work of the living creator God, who is the powerful God of history.

Dear Andrew,

The humanistic element lies in the fact that modern man has created God in his own image, viz. on his own terms and as a projection of his own alienated heart. If he can’t identify with God as revealed in Scripture, he rejects Him – fallen man has elevated himself to the judge of God.

If God says about the lost that “the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever” then He means what He says which is simply this: the lost will be in torment for all eternity – not just for five minutes followed by eternal smoke (I think a twelve-year-old would understand this).

The Assyrian captivity was a warning to Judah, but she did even worse and didn’t repent despite the Babylonians. Israel’s Seven Times Punishment commenced after the exile in 536 BCE (e.g. LEV 26:28) and terminated in 1948. And yes, God did punish the righteous with the wicked millennia later; the Holocaust was ordained by Him (no matter how our humanistic minds rebel against that). The Bible speaks about a double-destruction of Jerusalem: at the beginning of the European exile, and at the end of it (the latter being the Shoah).

The historical fulfilments of gehenna are just one aspect, the crucial point is that they all foreshadow eternal agony in a lake of fire.

I have written an article about the Shoah which you can find here.



I had a brief look and before agreeing that we don’t agree, a few comments:

  1. Anyone with a basic understanding of Revelation knows that Babylon stands for the Papacy, and it is her judgment which is referred to. Whether you go to church on Sunday, celebrate Xmas, or agree with the Pope on evolution or a future Antichrist, etc. – such features will bring you an allegiance with the beast.
  2. To say the chaff was burnt in 70 CE, or to apply a death sentence pronounced on Judgement Day to past history, is as evil as ludicrous.  
  3. In passing, the wages of sin is spiritual death which separates from God during this life, and which will eternally separate from God after physical death (which is the lot of Adam’s progeny unless regenerate). That ‘Gehenna’ is a coded prophetic reference to the destruction of Jerusalem is probably the most wicked and yet dumbest explanation I’ve ever read, but I am sure that many will embrace these sentiments as that is exactly what fallen mankind wants to hear — it sells well.

I wonder what people think Yeshua saved them from? From mere physical death and some sweet nothing afterwards?

The twelve-year-old was right after all.

If God says about the lost that “the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever” then He means what He says which is simply this: the lost will be in torment for all eternity – not just for five minutes followed by eternal smoke (I think a twelve-year-old would understand this).

Actually God first said that about Edom (Isaiah 34:10).  You will note that Edom is not currently on fire.

Thanks for the suggestion.  My point is that you brought up this image and, rather scornfully, implied that even a child could recognize this meant eternal torment.

My point is that anyone who reads the whole Bible would easily recognize this image does NOT mean eternal torment.

You may want to start studing about metaphors, genre, apocalyptic imagery, ancient literature, etc.

Well, why should it be? You may want to start studying about types and antitypes, foreshadowings, etc.

Sure. So the smoke from the day of God’s vengeance against Edom is not quenched night and day, it goes up forever—not literally, more as a sign of the finality of the judgment. John sees in that a type or foreshadowing of the future decisive judgment of those people who serve the idolatrous beast of pagan Rome. Two historical events. One is the type, the other the antitype. Nothing in what John says in light of the typology compels us to think that he is describing a suffering that happens after death.

Pagan Rome falls in REV 6. What do you think John is talking about in REV 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, and 20? Do you think he is still talking about Pagan Rome whose fall is portrayed fourteen chapters earlier? How about Papal Rome, would that be an idea? Do you think God has nothing to say about the 50 million which the Papacy has murdered — as per conservative estimates — over a period of 1,260 years? Why do you think Luther called the papal-pagan tyranny the Babylonian Captivity? All the Reformers knew it, and it should be common knowledge today.

I’ve been to the Valley of Hinnom, and I can vouchsafe that it’s not burning anymore and there are no maggots crawling around. Thus, according to our enlightened, critical intellects, it can’t foreshadow eternal torment in hell. Which metaphor then would you choose on this side of eternity to describe eternity, if you are so smart? Once you have found a better one than the deterrent ‘Jesus’ chose, please let me know.

I would suggest you repent and ensure you don’t end up in that awful place, instead of explaining it away.  

Which metaphor then would you choose on this side of eternity to describe eternity…?

My understanding is that the New Testament sees a final renewal of creation, which is not a metaphor. Those whose names are written in the book of life share in the new heaven and new earth. Those whose names are not are destroyed in the lake of fire, which is the “second death”. Death, as everywhere in scripture, is not eternal torment; it is the end of life.

Ok. I didn’t mean to insult you personally, sorry. Let’s leave it at that.

Hello. Not an intellectual here. No certificates or diplomas. Just a lady who has been googling and reading to answer some questions for myself. I came across this article and the back and forth. In my understanding thus far, there is:

1. definitely a destination after our physical life. 

2. There is a second death, which according to my understanding, comes on the final judgment day. The lake of fire being the final judgment destination, which even Hell itself is thrown.

3. Revelation speaks about the sea giving up its dead, that & this, giving up it’s dead for the final day of judgement.

4. There is reference made to a “new” heaven. That in itself makes me ask, why is a “new” heaven needed?

So, from reading about Lazarus, to the thief on the cross, sheol vs paradise etc & etc. I’m of the thought that there is a “holding place” (my lack of a better phrase) for the wicked seperate to the “holding place” for the righteous. On the final judgement day, even the righteous get their life book pulled out & then it’s separately confirmed if their name is in the Lamb’s book of Life. That would be more understandable, for myself, if one needs to reconcile why Jesus has gone to prepare a place for us & the concept of not only a new Earth but a “new” heaven.

5. I think with all the debating going on, something is forgotten. God is outside Time. We, in this Earth & reality, are subject to “Time”. So our concept of eternity cannot truly be comprehended in it’s full grasp. 1 day to the Lord is like a thousand years to us. If Christ’s death was & is, once & for all, it means time is shifted, in that His death as God’s sacrificial lamb broke the constraints of the human understanding of time. His death being once and for all, has bought eternal life for all, through the ages. He does not have to offer himself over & over again. So, I think eternity, eternal, forever & ever in our full understanding is limited.

6. I can imaging the reality sting & the stench of someone rejecting Christ & when they physically die… it’s a perpetual stink for themselves. They have no hope when the final day of judgment comes… They’re just weeping & gnashing their teeth knowing their fate is sealed.

7. So whether Gehenna is a referral to the prophecy of Jerusalem’s upcoming demise made by Jesus at that time, or some afterlife referral…the reality either or, both ways makes sense. 

If Jesus has paid for our sins & we are redeemed , why worry about Hell? Is it a lack of Faith to think His atonement is insufficient? Or are we actually holding on unrepentantly to a sin that makes us worry about our afterlife affairs? 

No offense intended, but I always suspected that the Holocaust was triggered by the response of the Jew’s, when Pontius Pilate declared Jesus innocent in his eyes & when the Jew’s chose Barabbas to be released. They kind of said ” let the blood of Jesus be upon our heads and our generation’s head”. God loves Israel & always leaves a remnrant. 

Well, if anyone reads my post, thank you for the informative debate to peruse. Hope my thoughts don’t offend anyone.

Thank you

Sparrrow | Wed, 11/27/2019 - 21:34 | Permalink

Thank you so much for writing this article.  The idea of hell has tormented me for a long time, and I am getting free of it, seeing that it isn’t even biblical.  This article came to me at just the right time and answered some lingering questions in my mind.  Thank you for what you are doing.  You are helping people like me who have been hurt by ‘hell’ teachings to get free and find some peace and not be so scared of God anymore!

Gordon MackleyAndrew Perriman | Mon, 04/13/2020 - 15:59 | Permalink

In reply to by Andrew Perriman

Thanks for the article which is very well researched and gives a good broad view of theological history and how it has affected the historical (or at least post Romanisation) view of ‘hell’ in the Christian church.

I am sorry you have had so many misinformed and often quite rude comments from some, not to mention the downright wacky,

You are a patient man. God bless!