Phil L. replied to Miguel de Servet Those translations all seem sound to me. Since you did not offer superior translations, I can’t compare them to yours, but I would note that there may not be much point in anyone offering you the texts you’ve demanded if your response is going to be, “I don’t think these are good translations. *crickets*”
It seems, though, that you have no problem with the “impending” part...(14 April, 2019 - 19:06)
Miguel de Servet replied to Phil L. My comment on supersessionism not being “an intrinsically bad thing” was qualified. I also wanted to make unquestionably clear that it is a theological, NOT a historical soncept.(13 April, 2019 - 23:09)
Miguel de Servet replied to Phil L. Paul speaks of:
[v.26] “present difficulty” (enestōsan anagkēn - “impending crisis” is a motivated translation)
[v.29] “shortened time” (kairos sunestalmenos - “the appointed time has grown short” is a loose and motivated translation)
[v. 31] “the form of this world is passing away” (paragei to schēma tou kosmaou toutou - the addition of the adjective “present” in the traslation...(13 April, 2019 - 22:59)
Phil L. replied to Miguel de Servet (1.) It was wise to abandon the “supersessionism” issue, especially after my quip on Islam … (^_-)
I’m pretty sure he abandoned it because you said there was nothing wrong with it. Why would he continue to argue against a critique you don’t have?(13 April, 2019 - 20:35)
Phil L. replied to Miguel de Servet Here’s one example:
25 Now concerning virgins, I have no command of the Lord, but I give my opinion as one who by the Lord’s mercy is trustworthy. 26 I think that, in view of the impending crisis, it is well for you to remain as you are. 27 Are you bound to a wife? Do not seek to be free. Are you free from a wife? Do not seek a wife. 28 But if you marry, you do not sin, and if a virgin...(13 April, 2019 - 20:34)
Miguel de Servet replied to Samuel Conner @ Samuel Conner
a “coming national-political catastrophe” is in view in his [Paul’s] warnings.
The question is the same for you as it is for Andrew:
please provide textual evidence from Paul’ s writings (or, at most, form Acts).
Besides (for you as for Andrew): what makes you read Pomans 11 as referred to the near future? If this is not the case, how do you reconcile...(13 April, 2019 - 15:18)
Samuel Conner replied to Miguel de Servet It may border on hubris for me to put a toe into this turbulent pool, but if one thinks that Paul’s warnings were of substantially the same character as Jesus’ (I would prefer to believe this, and it may help to account for the urgency with which Paul sought out diaspora Jews to be the first hearers of his message in each city he visited), it leads to IMO a strong presumption that
a “...(13 April, 2019 - 11:40)
Miguel de Servet replied to Andrew (1.) It was wise to abandon the “supersessionism” issue, especially after my quip on Islam … (^_-)
2. Your phrase “narrative-historical but from the point of view of the church” is a roundabout way to say “the (overwhelming majority of) Jews were punished because they did not repent and did not accept Jesus as their Messiah”.
First, I agree with it, BUT it IS a theological...(13 April, 2019 - 08:58)
Andrew replied to Miguel de Servet 2. I would say that it is narrative-historical but from the point of view of the church. It is “theological” only because that is what happened in the course of history. The historical narrative precedes the theology. If Israel had “repented” of its rejection of Jesus, our theology—and indeed history—would be very different.
3. By “the church” I meant the New Testament church. Sorry, that was...(12 April, 2019 - 21:40)
Miguel de Servet Oh, BTW, speaking of theological claims, of course Islam is entitled to claiming that it has superseded both Judaism and Christianity ….(12 April, 2019 - 10:51)
Miguel de Servet replied to Andrew 1. No, supersessionism is not “an intrinsically bad thing”, especially if it is openly avowed by its advocates.
2. Of course as the Jews (however defeated and scattered), never abandoned their aspiration to be part of a national Israel, your “historical or practical supersession of Israel by the church” is not so much a “narrative-historical” position, as a theological position.
3. You...(11 April, 2019 - 22:47)
Andrew replied to Miguel de Servet 1. Is supersessionism an intrinsically bad thing? If so, why?2. My statement could be construed as affirming a historical or practical supersession of Israel by the church, to all intents and purposes. It’s what happened.3. But the statement denies a biblically anticipated supersession of Israel by the church. No one in Judaism or the church, as far as I can see, predicted or wished for the...(11 April, 2019 - 18:38)
Miguel de Servet replied to Andrew See my response to Alex [@ post Donald Hagner’s “interpretive dilemma” that isn’t a dilemma] who asks more or less the same question.
Forgive me for insisting, but this sentence, at the end of your “response to Alex” …
Luke and Paul, and probably also Jesus, expected some Gentiles to participate in this restoration, as foreseen by the prophets. But no one [where? in Israel?...(11 April, 2019 - 08:46)
Miguel de Servet I don’t know where Hagner got his “universal restoration” from, but the translation is quite unfounded.
Let’s tentatively follow you in your claim that Hagner’s translation of apokatastaseōs pantōn with “universal restoration” is “unfounded”, nay, even “tendentious”.
Let’s compare Hagner’s translation …
[Jesus], who must remain in heaven until the...(10 April, 2019 - 21:52)
John Shakespeare replied to Samuel Conner We shall probably get a clearer idea of Hart’s understanding when his book promoting universalism – That All Shall Be Saved – hits the shelves in September. But make sure you have a dictionary to hand.(10 April, 2019 - 18:59)
Samuel Conner Thank you; this is helpful.
Re: “I don’t know where Hagner got his “universal restoration” from, but the translation is quite unfounded.”
There are multiple controversies bubbling within evangelicalism at the moment. One of the more “under the radar” ones IMO is the debate about personal eschatology, “universalism” versus “infernalism” versus “conditional immortality.” I don’t...(10 April, 2019 - 16:52)
Andrew replied to Alex Indeed, this is the conundrum.
Luke tells the story from the perspective of the apostolic mission prior to Nero’s persecution of Christians in Rome in 64, the outbreak of the Jewish War in 66, and the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple in 70. I presume we are meant to think, therefore, that the early Jewish church believed that a restoration of the kingdom to Israel would happen some time...(10 April, 2019 - 22:47)
Alex How would you say Jesus restored the kingdom to Israel, granting rescue from the hands of its enemies? After all, it was the Greek churches that inherited the authority of the empire, not the Jewish churches.
It seems Jesus expected Israel’s outcasts to benefit directly from the coming kingdom. But even they faded into the background as Paul and others found great success among the...(10 April, 2019 - 21:22)
Phil Ledgerwood replied to Miguel de Servet Hey Miguel,
Automated anti-spam algorithms are all different, but there are certain principial commonalities.
For example, if I leave a ton of comments on a website in a very short amount of time, some algorithms might suspect that I’m a spammer. If I copy and paste content, some might suspect that I’m a spammer. If I have several external links, especially if they all go...(9 April, 2019 - 19:52)
Miguel de Servet replied to Phil L. Thank you Phil, you are very kind.
1) Is the “number of comments” relative to the post or to the whole blog?
2) If trying to post the same comment more than once, when it was rejected, is seen as “duplicated”, then yes.
3) I have resorted to external links on several occasions, without any problem.
BTW, I wonder how the allegedly “slightly different email address” differed...(9 April, 2019 - 08:52)
Phil L. replied to Miguel de Servet Huh. I wonder what it is about your posting patterns that would trip an anti-spam algorithm.
Typically, some of the main things anti-spam algorithms look for are:
1) Quantity (sheer number of comments)
2) Duplicated content
3) External links
Did your comment push against any of those?(8 April, 2019 - 23:29)
Helge seekamp replied to Miguel de Servet As Crüsemann explains I his interpretation the Term „fulfill“ must not be translated in the traditional-scheme of ot-nt-fulfillment-theology, but represents the Hebrew „malé“ piel. Or “qum”, in LXX translated with pleroo”, a Rabinic Special term of “fittin to the reality” or “make strong”… it marks often a allusion to an Situation or prophetic word…
= Luke made the Hebrew...(8 April, 2019 - 19:32)
Miguel de Servet When I try to save my comment, I get:
Forbidden. Message seems to be spam.(8 April, 2019 - 14:36)
Miguel de Servet replied to peter wilkinson Peter,
it doesn’t seem very likely that a hotel in Phnom Penh would have available in its lobby for its guests a book about “First-Century Judaism and the Emergence of Christianity” that was issued on October 16, 2018 :)
By the way, I find very thought-provoking this paragraph at the end pf Chapter 1 of the book:
But, of course, it must be remembered that for the full story [of...(9 April, 2019 - 13:44)
peter wilkinson I’m slightly concerned about what you’re doing with Hagner’s book in a hotel in Phnom Penh. Did you pick it up in the hotel lobby?(9 April, 2019 - 09:11)
Stephen Burnhope replied to Andrew Again, thank you Andrew. I would love for some Pauline scholars to test one of my core theories, that what was going on beneath the surface in the writings of the New Testament and the story of the early Church — the theological ‘big issue’, when one reads between the lines in e.g. Galatians — was “How are we supposed to relate the wonderful gift of God in Torah that we’ve known and loved...(9 April, 2019 - 12:05)
HMarie replied to Andrew Rightly dividing the word, is the key. Much of the NT, was spoken and written by Jews, and only TO Jews. It wasn’t until AFTER the resurrection, that Paul was commissioned to go unto the Gentile nations. BEFORE Yashua’s death,Yashua and his disciples were ONLY seeking “the lost sheep of Israel”.(7 April, 2019 - 17:50)
HMarie replied to Andrew Rightly dividing the word, is the key. Much of the NT, was spoken and written by Jews, and only TO Jews. It wasn’t until AFTER the resurrection, that Paul was commissioned to go unto the Gentile nations. BEFORE Yashua’s death,Yashua and his disciples were ONLY seeking “the lost sheep of Israel”.(7 April, 2019 - 17:49)