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(how to tell the biblical story in a way that makes a difference)

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The history of biblical interpretation—a tale of two cities

Philip Ledgerwood replied to Michael What about this, exactly, has been refuted “a million times over” in “the scholarship?” (Tue, 12/06/2018 - 14:19)
Michael I’m sorry but this is utterly anachronistic and self-serving. It’s been refuted a million times over in the scholarship. I notice the complete lack of reference to any scholarship to back this up…the... (Tue, 12/06/2018 - 13:39)

Noah—the guy who saved humanity by making wine

Philip Ledgerwood replied to Andrew Well, I sure won’t invite my kids! (Thu, 07/06/2018 - 21:27)
Andrew replied to Tycho vermeulen I was thinking of you! Inspirational! (Wed, 06/06/2018 - 21:05)
Andrew replied to Philip Ledgerwood Go for it! Just don’t end up sprawling half-naked somewhere and embarrassing yourself. (Wed, 06/06/2018 - 21:05)
Tycho vermeulen Nice to learn we’re stepping in Noah’s footsteps by making wine at the City Vineyard in The Hague. Looking forward to seeing you Sunday, Andrew! (Wed, 06/06/2018 - 19:55)
Philip Ledgerwood replied to Andrew This makes me want to get together some like minded friends and have a celebration of Noah’s deliverance of mankind. Or, just taking the next time we get together at the Wine Dive and calling it... (Wed, 06/06/2018 - 16:36)
Andrew replied to Philip Ledgerwood Yes, Crossroads in the Hague. But it won’t all end up in the sermon. (Wed, 06/06/2018 - 16:17)
Philip Ledgerwood Nice sermon thoughts! Will this be for Crossroads? (Wed, 06/06/2018 - 16:01)

Does Daniel say that the nations will “worship” the one like a son of man?

peter wilkinson replied to Philip Ledgerwood I am saying that the OT scriptures as a whole, and in this case Daniel in particular, provide a context which to an extent is set apart from more general contexts, and even the targums, because it... (Mon, 04/06/2018 - 23:05)
peter wilkinson replied to Andrew I must be suffering from Postost fatigue. Of course there’s an echo of Daniel 7:13 in Mark 14:62. It’s also most strikingly of all in Mark 13:26, which didn’t get mentioned in your extract. I’m... (Mon, 04/06/2018 - 22:02)
Philip Ledgerwood replied to peter wilkinson I agree it’s not an open and shut case. However, I’m confused/curious as to what you’re labeling as “context” for understanding these passages. It appears to me (and please tell me if I’m wrong) that... (Mon, 04/06/2018 - 21:55)
peter wilkinson replied to Philip Ledgerwood I think this is where word studies reveal their limitations. Words have meanings in contexts, not just the number of times they have been used across a wide range of literature in various contexts... (Mon, 04/06/2018 - 21:26)
Andrew replied to peter wilkinson Jesus does not refer to Daniel 7, so it cannot be said to “appeal” to him.I find this extraordinary. There seems to me to be virtually universal agreement among commentators that Jesus’s response to... (Mon, 04/06/2018 - 20:30)
Philip Ledgerwood replied to peter wilkinson Hey Peter, Just wanted to say a bit about this point: You may be getting tired of it, but the fact remains that in the context of Daniel, and also the majority context of the OTscriptures, not the... (Mon, 04/06/2018 - 19:59)
peter wilkinson replied to Andrew To respond to your comments point by point: 1. Exegesis: this is the heart of the issue. My view is that Jesus introduced, and Paul took much further, a radical re-reading of the Hebrew scriptures,... (Mon, 04/06/2018 - 17:49)
Andrew replied to peter wilkinson Any kind of political expectations described or raised by the passages were not realised in scriptural history, or beyond. But that’s not a problem for exegesis. It has no bearing on the question... (Mon, 04/06/2018 - 15:04)
peter wilkinson replied to Andrew I think you are right about the eschatological expectations of the Daniel 7 passages in the context (at least partially) of Israel’s national eschatological hopes/expectations. But here we come to... (Mon, 04/06/2018 - 12:56)
Andrew replied to Marc Taylor Neither Psalm 110:1 nor Daniel 7:13 makes the one who is given dominion God. Psalm 110:1 refers to the installation of YHWH’s king to rule in the midst of his enemies. It’s a greater king than David... (Mon, 04/06/2018 - 11:37)
Marc Taylor replied to Andrew I don’t have it with me now but I know the New International Dictionary of Old Testament Theology and Exegesis (NIDOTTE) refers to pelach as “worship” in Daniel 7. It may be a few months until I have... (Mon, 04/06/2018 - 10:40)
Marc Taylor replied to Andrew Psalm 110:1 The LORD says to my Lord: “Sit at My right hand Until I make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet.” (NASB) Daniel 7:13 I kept looking in the night visions, And behold, with the clouds... (Mon, 04/06/2018 - 10:35)
Andrew replied to peter wilkinson No, because the contexts are very different. Daniel 7 makes no reference to a god or gods, all the other instances are quite explicit. Daniel 7 is about dominion and kingship, not about worship of a... (Mon, 04/06/2018 - 09:53)
Andrew replied to Marc Taylor Even if the idea is a universal service of all nations, that does not mean that pelach describes the worship of a divine figure. Coming on the clouds of heaven does not make the “one like a son of... (Mon, 04/06/2018 - 09:49)
peter wilkinson replied to Andrew So we’re saying that in all the other OT usages, especially the seven usages in Daniel apart from Daniel 7, the direct object of pelach (whatever its precise meaning: worship or serve) is deity (gods... (Mon, 04/06/2018 - 08:44)
Marc Taylor replied to Andrew Andrew, Your insistence that pelech does not mean worship in Daniel 7:14 does not at all fit the context. The Son of Man will be given ‘pelach’ by “all” people of “every” language. This goes far... (Mon, 04/06/2018 - 01:52)
Andrew replied to peter wilkinson So just out of interest, of the ten uses of pelach in the OT to which you allude, are any used in a sense of referring to anyone other than God? Yes, the two instances in Daniel 7. The argument I... (Sun, 03/06/2018 - 23:12)
peter wilkinson replied to Andrew Andrew - I think everyone here, including yourself, is arguing from, and in support of, their presuppositions. I have done the same in previous posts, so don’t need to rehearse my arguments again. I... (Sun, 03/06/2018 - 12:14)
Peter Simmonds Here’s a link to Hurtado’s essay on the subject: http://tinyurl.com/y7xdqeta (Sat, 02/06/2018 - 10:31)
Andrew replied to Marc Taylor Marc, this is not about denying that the Lord Jesus is God. This is about not distorting the meaning of a passage in Daniel or the use that Jesus makes of the passage. My argument is only that he... (Sat, 02/06/2018 - 10:28)

Why does Jesus give the kingdom back in the end and become subject again to God?

Henry replied to peter wilkinson I feel the scripture above will not be confusing if we understand that there are positions higher than kings. Kings are subject to emperors. We are kings and Christ is king over us, so also is he... (Sun, 03/06/2018 - 14:01)